8/02/2010 | Posted in ,

Many of the readers here are familiar with “Brother D” and his blog.
I have been a regular reader and enjoy his insight. One thing we don't agree on is rapture timing. He recently wrote a short post that I wanted to respond to, but comments are not open on his site so I will post my comments here.

Please understand the spirit in which this is written. I am not “arguing” with anyone, or attempting to “stir the pot”. I simply wanted to include an alternate understanding to what he has written.

His original wording is in bold, with my response following.


When did the flood come in Noah's day? After Noah and his family went into the ark.

When did fire and brimstone rain down on sodom? After Lot and his family left the city.


Correct. However, just as in every other story of tribulation in the old testament, no one left the tribulation, trials, or destruction. They were protected through it. (John 17:15)

Something else the Lord gave me about the pre-trib rapture. The pre-trib rapture is the only position on the rapture that conforms to the idea that we need not write to you of times and dates:

1 Thessalonians 5:1 ... Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you


Incorrect. If we continue reading, we find WHY there was no need to write about times and dates:

1 Thessalonians 5:2,4 - For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

They knew perfectly when Christ would return. It’s even recorded when He returns “as a thief”.

Revelation 16:15,16 - Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed [is] he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

The unbelievers are gathered together at Armageddon, the believers are then gathered in the rapture, and the final wrath is poured out on the unbelieving world.

Matthew 13:30 - Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Why do we not need to write about times and dates as believers in a pre-trib rapture? Because we are looking for our Lord to show up every single day, any single day

This idea of an “any moment rapture” is not found in scripture. The disciples were told to tarry in Jerusalem until Holy Spirit came. They did not expect an “any moment rapture”; They expected Holy Spirit to come. Jesus appeared to Paul and told him that he would preach in Rome. Jesus told Peter that he would die an old man. Jesus said the church in Smyrna would suffer persecution ten days. From the time Christ ascended until the end of the first century, no one expected a rapture.

The "other tribbers" preach a message of partial or no escape. The bible on the other hand clearly teaches that there is an escape from ALL coming (Luke 21:36). Luke 21:36 does not stand on its own, facts throughout the bible support the idea of "escape from all." Just as it was in the days of Noah and Lot, so shall it be in at the coming of the Son of man. Could he be any clearer? Noah, escaped ALL of the flood. Lot escaped ALL of the fire and brimstone, and some of us will escape ALL of what's about to happen. That's a 100% certified FACT straight from the Word of God.

I agree whole heartedly that some will be counted worthy to escape all. However, no one is ever promised a removal from the situation, but protection through it.

Again, I emphasize that there are other ways of understanding these scriptures, and this is how I understand them. I share these views in hopes that others will study on their own and ask the Lord to reveal to them the truth of His Word.

Comments

4 responses to "In Response:"

  1. Ma ~ On August 2, 2010 at 7:33 AM

    I just wonder how Enoch fits into all this. It seems like there is some typology there that isn't written for nothing. Any thoughts?

     
  2. Kingdom Studies On August 2, 2010 at 9:54 AM

    I did study this from a pre-trib perspective when that was the way I was leaning. It was explained to me that Enoch represented the church (removed before the tribulation), Noah represented the Jewish remnant that would be protected, and everyone else was unbelievers that died.

    However, Enoch was taken 669 years before the flood. Christ stated that the last days would be like the days of Noah; Not Enoch.

    The story of Enoch being taken almost 670 years prior makes him very far removed from the flood account.

    Very little is mentioned about Enoch in scripture. Although opinion differs, I believe it is very possible that he is one of the two witnesses.

     
  3. Ma ~ On August 2, 2010 at 10:48 AM

    I do believe that Christ was right in talking about the days of Noah, that's when he would return. I also believe he was talking to the children of Israel as per the above Jewish remnant theory. The church was still a mystery during Jesus earth ministry imho, so he couldn't have been talking about a rapture event. But I assume you have already studied all this in the past;)

    I think Enoch may be one of the two witnesses, too.

    Enoch wouldn't have been a Jew, though, so I think that is interesting.

     
  4. Kingdom Studies On August 2, 2010 at 12:31 PM

    Yes, I have studied both sides of the argument.

    You state that Jesus could not have been referring to the rapture. I'll explain why I believe He was, and if you have further insight, please share it.

    Matthew 24:37 - But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    Just prior to this, Jesus stated:

    Matthew 24:31 - And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    I believe this is very much the rapture event.
    There are angels, a trumpet, and a gathering.

    1 Thess. 4:16,17 - For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    Again, there's the angel, the trump, and the gathering.

    Immediately after His statement about the days of Noah, Christ says:

    Matthew 24:40 - Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

    Once again, someone is being taken, or gathered.

    Referring back to Matthew 24:31, it says the ELECT are gathered. Who are the elect? Is this referring to the Jews?

    Romans 11:7 - What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened.

    Israel did not receive Messiah, but the ELECT (the church) did receive Him.

     
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